Legislature(2011 - 2012)BELTZ 105 (TSBldg)
03/15/2011 02:00 PM Senate LABOR & COMMERCE
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| SB81 | |
| SB40 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| *+ | SB 40 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
| += | SB 81 | TELECONFERENCED | |
SB 40-USE OF RECORDED MESSAGES
CHAIR EGAN announced SB 40 to be up for consideration.
SENATOR PASKVAN moved to bring CSSB 40( ), labeled 27-LS0374\I,
before the committee.
CHAIR EGAN objected for discussion purposes.
SENATOR MEYER, sponsor of SB 40, said [version I] would prohibit
some kinds of "robocalls." Several constituents, and one
neighbor in particular complained to him about the excessive
number of robocalls they had received during the last election
process, and he said you have to agree that these calls
interrupt the tranquility of people's homes. SB 40 limits
robocalls but doesn't prohibit all of them - just the ones that
offer goods or services for things like refinancing a mortgage
or getting a cheaper insurance rate. It prohibits gathering data
or promoting a political campaign.
Should SB 40 pass, a person receiving the call can get
information on something that has been purchased; for instance
its availability and delivery schedule. A robocall could still
be used if the caller initiated an inquiry or needs to receive
public safety information - like a school district notifying
people of a snow day. This bill would allow people to make
robocalls as long as the person obtains permission of the called
party by a live operator before the recorded message is made.
The last portion of the bill imposes a penalty. Other states
vary from a fine of $500 in Indiana to $1500 in Montana to 30
days in jail in North Carolina. Some states have done this
successfully; Wyoming and Arkansas don't allow them at all.
About a dozen states have passed bills similar to this one.
SENATOR MEYER pointed out that one can filter unwanted e-mail
advertisements, but for some reason the phone companies have not
allowed filters to be set up to filter unwanted robocalls. He
said that the election process should be a time of excitement,
civil debate and positive encouragement to get out and vote.
Instead, people are annoyed and while they may not prevent them
from voting, these calls leave "a bad taste in their mouth about
the whole election process."
2:20:44 PM
SEAN DAKIN, CEO and founder, Citizens for Civil Discourse, a
non-profit organization, Washington, D.C., said they run the
National Do Not Call Registry. He said voters on both sides of
the aisle and those in-between are impacted by this issue, and
while they don't support specific legislative remedies, they are
very encouraged by SB 40. These calls are annoying, but they
also can have a big impact. A young mother wrote that she has a
one-year old daughter, and the phone rings when she puts her to
bed, the worst possible time. Another e-mail came from a person
whose Mom had a stroke and doesn't understand that they are
automated calls. They have received many e-mails from seniors
who live in fear of a health emergency occurring while robocalls
come in and not being able to call their doctor as their phone
line is tied up. The attorney general from North Carolina once
testified that an entire phone system in a hospital was shut
down by political robocalls because the computer system decided
to call every single phone line there.
2:23:41 PM
MR. DAKIN said it's a huge problem nationally as well as in
Alaska. In 2006, according to the non-partisan, non-profit, Pew
Research Center, nearly two-thirds of registered voters received
calls; that's approximately 90 million voters. In 2007, they
followed up and found a clear escalation in the use of
robocalls. In Iowa, 81 percent of voters received robocalls; in
New Hampshire and South Carolina, the percentages were 68 and 40
percent respectively. His members represent a fraction of the
millions of voters who receive hundreds of millions of robocalls
each election cycle.
MR. DAKIN quoted others of their 200,000 members around the
country who have been harassed and get woken up consistently by
either automated or in-person calls for political reasons. One
was from a person who couldn't be reached by someone in the
hospital because his phone was busy with calls; another from a
gentleman who worked at night and received five to seven calls a
day asking him for his vote while he was trying to sleep and he
is worried about losing his job because of it.
Of course, automated phone messages are annoying, he said. It's
phone harassment, and being automated you can't tell them to
stop calling. The caller ID reads zeros and you can't call them
back. He has rarely met anyone who likes receiving robocalls
unless it happens to be a robocall vendor.
SENATOR PASKVAN asked if the Do Not Call Registry is a national
registry, so someone could call from Alaska and effectively keep
their number from being used by national robocalls.
MR. DAKIN replied that the Federal Do Not Call Registry is a
national registry and you get there by going to
"donotcall.gov;". Registering prevents commercial robocalls from
calling citizens.
2:27:20 PM
SENATOR PASKVAN asked if someone in Alaska calls that registry,
will that solve this problem.
MR. DAKIN replied it only solves the problem if this bill
passes. The federal legislation specifically exempts three
categories of calls: market research, non-profit and charitable
and political calls. That is why there are a number of state
regulations, and this would be in addition to that.
SENATOR PASKVAN asked if SB 40 applies to calls from outside the
state as well as from within.
MR. DAKAN replied that he isn't a lawyer, but a similar law
exists in Indiana that has successfully stopped inter and intra
state robocalls; it makes no difference if they are political,
commercial or charitable. He didn't know the specific legal
language.
2:29:21 PM
SENATOR MENARD said when she was on the school board there was a
lot of controversy over robocalls and asked if the Matsu school
district could still put out a call that a dance has been
cancelled or the weather is too bad.
SENATOR MEYER answered that is correct.
SENATOR MENARD congratulated him for bringing this bill forward.
SENATOR GIESSEL asked who gets fined.
SENATOR MEYER answered whoever is making the call or whoever's
name is getting advertised.
SENATOR GIESSEL asked if the company making those calls is out
of state, would Alaska level fines across state lines.
SENATOR MEYER replied that fine would be levied on whoever
authorized the call, himself for instance. So, whoever is hired
to do it should know it's against the law in Alaska, but if they
are still willing to do it, he would be the responsible one.
SENATOR GIESSEL asked if this would also cover automated text
messages.
SENATOR MEYER answered no, but they would be coming soon to cell
phones and texting.
2:32:07 PM
CHAIR EGAN asked him to explain the differences in the version I
CS.
CHRISTINE MARASIGAN, staff to Senator Meyer, explained that the
version I committee substitute has three main changes from
version M. The first and second changes are because the drafter
found that a section was repealed in 2004 and things got
renumbered. So, the applicable sections 2 and 3 (lines 12-24 and
lines 26-30 on page 2, respectively) that referred to those
numbers had to be changed. The third, and substantive, change is
the addition of a penalty on page 3, line 15, and for this they
looked at what other states do.
2:34:01 PM
CHAIR EGAN asked if the $500 fine is per call.
SENATOR MEYER replied his intent is to apply it to each
occurrence. One robocall made a thousand times would get the
$500 fine. He said they started with the minimum of $500, but
the committee could change that.
CHAIR EGAN stated that paying a $500 fine would be a small price
to pay for making a state-wide robocall.
MS. MARASIGAN said the penalty seems miniscule in looking at the
number of companies that make these calls. She had asked the
drafter what kind of penalty there is if this section weren't
put in and was told that all a person could do would be complain
to the attorney general (AG).
2:36:44 PM
SENATOR MENARD said she thought the fine should be more.
SENATOR MEYER replied they thought long and hard about the size
of the fine. If you're running a campaign, it would be breaking
the law, and he didn't think anyone would want to be caught
doing that while campaigning.
2:39:21 PM
BRIAN KANE, Legislative Legal Attorney, Legislative Affairs
Agency, Alaska State Legislature, explained that currently the
applicable statute, AS 45.54.075(a)(1)(2)(3), has no fine. There
is a possibility for an attorney general's investigation and an
option for civil penalties if a private person brings an action
against the person making the prohibited calls, but no automatic
fine.
SENATOR PASKVAN asked if a violation of (a)(4) [lines 1-4, page
2], includes those penalties plus the potential of a $500 fine.
MR. KANE replied that it is in addition to "any other penalties
provided by the chapter."
2:41:30 PM
CYNTHIA DRINKWATER, Consumer Protection Division, Department of
Law (DOL), Juneau, AK, said her understanding of how the penalty
provision in subsections (a)(1)(2)(3) of SB 40 would work is
that it would apply to the Consumer Protection Act (CPA). And if
the AG brought a lawsuit, they could obtain a minimum penalty of
$1000 up to $25,000 per violation. The CPA also has a private
right of action and that would allow private parties to obtain
treble damages or $500, whichever is greater, per violation.
SENATOR PASKVAN asked what type of enforcement has been made in
the last six years relative to those sections.
MS. DRINKWATER replied that the DOL gets about 400 consumer
complaints per year. Typically, they send a letter with the
complaint to the business or industry the complaint is about and
ask for their response. Once the response is received, they
evaluate whether or not a violation has occurred or if more
information is needed before making that determination. The
department looks for patterns or practices of illegal conduct,
because they can't access private attorneys for all complaints
and they can't even investigate every complaint that they get.
They get a fair number of telemarketing complaints. It seems
like most of them have focused on the auto warranty industry and
the debt settlement industry (where people are offered to lower
their interest rates by signing up for a debt settlement). Those
complaints have fallen off a little in the last few years,
because the FCC has started to aggressively enforce the
applicable federal law, but that doesn't pertain to political or
charitable calls.
2:46:50 PM
SENATOR PASKVAN asked if Alaska's Consumer Protection Act
applies to political campaign messages.
MS. DRINKWATER answered no.
SENATOR GIESSEL said the language in SB 40 refers to a "person"
who violates this law, and asked if that would apply to
organizations as well.
SENATOR MEYER answered yes.
SENATOR GIESSEL commented that these are sometimes multi-million
dollar organizations, and this fine would be negligible for
them.
2:48:29 PM
JOELLE HALL, Political Director, Alaska AFL-CIO, asked if SB 40
envisions covering robocalls originated by membership groups to
their membership on political issues.
MS. MARASIGAN replied no. It says specifically that a person is
not liable for a violation of this section if they use the
robocalls for "(A) informing purchasers of the receipt,
availability for delivery, delay in delivery, or other pertinent
information on the status of any purchased goods or services" on
page 3 (h). She explained that to her, that means a membership
organization whose members pay a fee could provide services to
their group.
MS. HALL said she wants to make sure their right to communicate
with their members, whether it's through a robocall or a live
call or through the mail, is protected. Other advocacy groups
and potentially political parties will have gone through the
work of collecting the phone numbers and have a donor pool, and
have basically opted in. She asked that language on page 3,
(h)(1)(a) be more explicit about the rights of membership groups
who use this method to communicate with their members. She
wanted it clear to the public that membership groups would be
empowered to use robocalls to dispense or share political
information.
2:52:08 PM
SENATOR MEYER said it is his intent that groups can do robocalls
within their memberships.
2:53:00 PM
JEFFRY MITTMAN, American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) Alaska,
said the ACLU, with respect to any constitutional civil
liberties issues, doesn't take a position with regard to the
substance of the bill, but is working with the sponsor on a
minor technical issue on page 2, lines 3-11(e). Because the
First Amendment generally provides fairly robust protections for
political speech and because of the way the legislation is
currently drafted, it specifically includes political speech as
a prohibited communication. They recommend deleting the language
on lines 3-11 on page 2, so the bill would essentially ban all
robo-communications and exempt things like membership
organizations, public safety announcements, etc.
CHAIR EGAN said he had to leave the meeting and handed the gavel
to Vice-Chair Paskvan to continue.
2:55:23 PM
RANDY RUEDRICH, representing himself and the Alaska Republican
Party, said that the characterization of automated calls being
offensive is highly overstated. He has gathered data for years
on these types of calls and found that in some cases the
principle complaint was, "I wish the individual would have
called me personally." and that others were simply ill-timed and
a result of "poor management." Calls made to Alaskans before 6
in the morning generate more activity. He said this is a great
device for communicating with citizens, and he wanted to
encourage anyone using these calls to make them succinct,
meaningful, targeted, and timely.
2:59:14 PM
VICE-CHIAR PASKVAN closed public testimony and held CSSB 40 in
committee. Finding no further business to come before the
committee, he adjourned the meeting at 2:59 p.m.
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